This is not really a comment on the above post but I have to ask; do you really think the Killian documents are real?

I don't know if they are real or fake. But the point is that as soon as a media outlet came forward to claim that they might not be authentic because the typeface didn't exist back then (which it did) and that superscript was not possible (which it was), that you accepted it right away without first letting some analysis be done.

The other issue is, can you really say that shrub did not get into the guard by using his family's influence? Can you really say that Ben Barnes is just making it up? Do you think the Killian documents authenticty changes the fact that he refused a direct order? Do you think the Killian documents authenticty changes this:

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2004/09/15/60II/main643768.shtml

"Killian's secretary, Marian Carr Knox, describes herself as Killian's 'right hand' during much of the 1970s."...
"She told Correspondent Dan Rather that she believes what the documents actually say is exactly as we reported."...
"Knox says she didn’t type these memos, but she says she did type ones that contained the same information.

'I know that I didn’t type them,' says Knox. 'However, the information in those is correct.'"...

So its a nice smoke screen the right has concocted so that while the mainstream media talks about fonts and superscript the real story is forgotten. The republican machine is made up of geniuses!

I knew you would fall hook, line, and sinker for this bull. You think those of us who had doubts about the authenticity of these documents should have waited for "some analysis (to) be done" By whom Jay? WE ARE THE ANALYSIS!!!! If Republicans had not stepped up and questioned Dans lame smear attempt it never would have been questioned. Here's a little tip kid, CBS is supposed to check the story BEFORE THEY AIR IT!!

"can you really say that shrub did not get into the guard by using his family's influence?"
Yes. I'm sure all the 4 million members of the Guard in '72 were well heeled rich kids. The rest just lied and ran to Oxford.

"Can you really say that Ben Barnes is just making it up?"
Yes. He's bitter about being deployed to Panama by Bush 41 where he contracted a rare disease that ruined his health.

"Do you think the Killian documents authenticty changes the fact that he refused a direct order?"
There is no authenticity in the Killian docs and Bush could not have refused an order in 1972 that wasn't written until some fool made it up in 2004!!! There is no order. It's on a fake document!!

Knox was the secretary for the entire unit. She didn't type that memo because it wasn't typed. It was created on a computer. She was not Killians "right hand."
And if this little tid bit is true..""Knox says she didn’t type these memos, but she says she did type ones that contained the same information. " Then why can't Dan Blather find one of those memo's???

But you did get one thing correct... "The republican machine is made up of geniuses!"
It is indeed. And the Kerry machine is made of myrmidons like Rather.

Can you NOT READ anonymous?! Jesus Christ man! If we are going to have a debate, would you please stop trying to change my words to suit your own argument.

I said "I DON'T KNOW if they are real or fake." Where the F*CK did I say I am positive they are real?!

And don't ever call me KID, insinuating that I don't know what I am talking about because I haven't lived as long as you, again or I will ban your ass from my blog! Now talk about the issues.

"'can you really say that shrub did not get into the guard by using his family's influence?'
Yes. I'm sure all the 4 million members of the Guard in '72 were well heeled rich kids. The rest just lied and ran to Oxford."
Ok so you admit that he got into the guard using family influence, so now is it ok for shrub to LIE and say that his family didn't help him get into the guard?!

"'Can you really say that Ben Barnes is just making it up?'
Yes. He's bitter about being deployed to Panama by Bush 41 where he contracted a rare disease that ruined his health."
Where do you get your info? It sounds like from some right-wing internet websites, how about the savage nation? If not tell me.

"'Do you think the Killian documents authenticty changes the fact that he refused a direct order?'
There is no authenticity in the Killian docs and Bush could not have refused an order in 1972 that wasn't written until some fool made it up in 2004!!! There is no order. It's on a fake document!!"
Ok so we know the facts are that he was supposed to take a physical exam but didn't. SO does that mean that it was immpossible for there to have been an order for him to take that physical?

And as far as Killian's secretary, I think it is a reach to say that because Rather didn't get the memos that she claims she typed, that they must not exist, and that she is lying. What is her motive to lie about this then? Is she a lady who was sent to Bolivia and was assualted by an elephant with a mean streak and then left to die by a bolivian with a Republican pin on their shirt? Come on.

Digit, the point of my rebuttal is that you will not face the fact that the docs are fake. You just cannot bring yourself to admit that this charge against Bush is fabricated by someone out to impune Bush and perpetuated by Dan Rather who is CLEARLY anti Bush. When you write that you don't know if the docs are real or fake it shows that you are holding out hope that they are real. They are not.
Now, to the Q & A;

"Ok so you admit that he got into the guard using family influence, so now is it ok for shrub to LIE and say that his family didn't help him get into the guard?!"
Clearly my attempt at sarcasm failed. I admit no such thing UNLESS you are willing to admit ALL the members of the Air National Guard at that time were beneficiaries of political favortism AND that all the men of the same age that lied to their ROTC commanders in order to run to Oxford University in England were really draft dodgers.


Re: Ben Barnes and his anger - I got that totally wrong. I thought Barnes was the name of an officer in the Texas National Guard who had been very critical of Bush and was supporting the memo. There is an officer who was/is critical of Bush for the reasons I mentioned in the earlier post I simply got the name wrong. So I apologize for that and I will make sure I know exactly which left wing scum I am impuning in the future.

Now, Barnes is a sleeze who was forced out of Texas politics due to various scandals in the early 70's. He went bankrupt during the S&L crisis but made it all back as a lobbiest for a large lottery concern. The whole story can be found here,

http://frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=14993

"Ok so we know the facts are that he was supposed to take a physical exam but didn't."
Please tell me how we know this fact. From what I've read Bush had to take a complete physical that is required yearly of ALL pilots. When I was in the guard we had to take a complete physical every 5 years. Pilots and officers take them on the monthly drill that their birthday falls in. Makes it easy to keep up with. This is not a direct order but rather a "standing order" or "standard operating proceedure." Please elaborate on this direct order that George Bush defied. Also keep in mind that Bush had resigned his flight status to go work on a Senate campaign in Alabama before his birthday that year. You can resign your status on a number of different jobs in the military if you have fulfilled your total obligation for that job which Bush had done earlier that year. I got that info from National Review.

As for the sec; it was a bull in Equador not a bull elephant in Bolivia and the pharasie is the one who crossed to the other side of the road leaving her to die!

Trust me, NsA you can't push hard enough to make me quit. More often than not I do not get to spend much time on the computer. I have to run a small business and it demands the majority of my schedule. So, if I missed something you would like to hear my response on please direct me to the thread.

And how exactly am I being humiliated in CBS-gate when it is becoming clearer by the day that the docs are fraudulent? Dan Rather is hoping to break a story those of us on the right have known as fact for over a week now. Your definition is most interesting in that light. Maybe that's why you're still a liberal despite all the evidence that I'm "right"!